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kju

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Reply with quote  #31 
Well one has to understand the code behind it, to get an idea what the problem could be.

If there are no more script errors in rpt, and no silent fails, it may still be a logic fail/problem in scripts,
yet more likely in that case is that A3 changed something.

Without a deep analysis, one cant really no say much.
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Gunter Severloh

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Reply with quote  #32 
Actually a few hrs ago now, Rydygier replied to my pm on Bis forums, basically this is what I asked and then he replied a bit later:

Gunter posted
Quote:
Sent 07 October 2016 - 19:34

i think Hetman is the main issue right now as you said the AI was aggressive more in the A2 version,
they are aggressive here but slow to capture, it present very little to no challenge, all the other stuff with the mission
like the loading screen, and the 2 officers at the table can be easily fixed, and for the rest of the errors if any, they
are not game breaking, overall the mode/mission is pretty much playable in A3 aside those 3 points.

Gunter posted
Quote:
Sent 09 October 2016, 13:07

I sent Miky74 a pm asking for his help with Ragnarok, we'll see if he is able and interested but he has used your hetman A3,
but maybe he can determine which script/code needs to be adjusted to increase the aggressiveness of the enemy AI
as thats about what the mission mode has come down too, as atm they are really no challenge or threat.

I looked at every file, every script in the mission trying to understand and figure out what is what I see
the AI folder in there but not totally sure if thats the one or one of them that decides how the AI will capture strategic points.

Just keeping you posted for where im at with it, if someone helps and we figure it out I will let you know.

After I posted those he replied about half hour later, I wasn't expecting him to reply for sometime as hes scripting for another project,
but he asked for the latest version of the mission to look at it, so i linked it to him, and then he replied couple hrs later with this:

Rydygier posted
Quote:

Sent 09 October 2016, 13:07 Today, 15:51

Thanks. I had few moments which was enough to determine one thing: source of AI stuck on he first objective
in fact most likely lies outside Hetman.
Hetman in Ragnarok determines, if given objective is taken by searching for "LAND_MBG_WOO_Enemy_Point" class object around the flag pole.
If there's no such object - there will be no progress. IIRC this object may be that red flat circle around the flag appearing, when flag is taken by terms of WOO code. I tested Hetman without all the WOO stuff running to speed up things, so there wasn't such object spawned obviously.

But when I changed Hetman's code to look for any unit around the flag instead of this red circle object - AI was
swiftly progressing from one flag to another, thus my guess, this red circle may not appear at the taken flag properly.
But we can't use such code detecting, if flag was taken by presence of any unit. I have to test this with all the stuff enabled to be sure. 

1hr later
Tested with WOO code and free editor camera and seems, for some reason also for Russians around the flag there is spawned not LAND_MBG_WOO_Enemy_Point, but LAND_MBG_WOO_Friendly_Point (the blue circle, same, as for the player).
That would explain the issue with Hetman, but I need more testing to be sure and to know, why is that happening.
Not today though, too late hour.

Even, if that's the reason, perhaps I could adjust a bit code, to make Hetman send his troops closer to the flag, I'm not sure,
if currently for 100% they go close enough to be counted as "taking the flag" by woo code. Nest time, I get some free mind/time,
I'll make further tests.


For now I will wait til he replies again and we'll see what the main issue is and how to fix it.


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kju

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Reply with quote  #33 
very good progress
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Gunter Severloh

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Reply with quote  #34 
Heres an update:

Posted by Rydygier
Quote:

Sent Today, 05:15

After some further tests:

1. False alarm about the cause. Color.class of the circle spawned at flag pole is chosen by player's side. I switched
the side for yesterday tests, thus wrong color. Today it was OK.

2. What I found as likely cause was too wide parameters of capturing objective movement - AI was sometimes sent too far from the flag - enough for Hetman, but not close enough for woo code. So Hetman was stuck in such case recognizing objectives as taken,
but woo was in different opinion about that and refused to sent signal to Hetman, he can proceed further.

3. After fixing that Hetman with his initial single foot mobile unit only (didn't installed CUP to save some time needed for downloading it)
after around 30 minutes took third objective and was about to take next. So there's no stuck.

4. Even with single infantry it could be faster. But - Hetman in A3, unlike A2 version, has by default activated feature,
that makes infantry groups not running straight forward toward objective, but instead group picks at its route chain of covered
positions (bushes, trees etc.) and moves toward objective in series of short runs between these spots, with some rest at each.
It looks more realistic/tactical, but takes much more time to go from A to B.
Question is - what way we prefer - as aggressive, as in A2, or slower, but more tactical infantry movement.
In terms of scenario rules, wiser may be straight A-B movement. 



His reply again after:

Posted by Rydygier
Quote:

Sent Today, 07:45

All right, here's the version after some fixes:

Changes:

1. Hopefully AI is aggressive enough at taking flags now (used straight A-to-B movement to speed up AI infantry);

2. Dark logo - code is fine. File was invalid - created for A2 with A2 TexView tool. Made another paa file with A3 tool
this time and logo is visible now, maybe even too vibrant, but oh, well;

3. Removed zeppelin font error message;

4. Officers should be positioned properly at the table;

5. Some other errors may be still around. Tried to find suitable A3 briefing animations for the officers, but no luck so far,
most of them include also some walking etc. other are for unit handling a rifle. We may seek more - there's animation viewer
in the editor. Currently officers are just standing.  Since apparently all the background AIs around the
building was removed - didn't searched for animations for them.

To do more I need CUP terrains first, it's 10 GB addon, so not today - not so fast download here. BTW,
if Ragnarok uses only tiny part of CUP terrains, would be IMHO most welcome either removing CUP-stuff dependency
somehow or asking for CUP terrains version containing only the stuff used by this scenario.
That would be my advice, but both things are completely out of my expertise. CUP Terrains size may be discouraging,
so if we want as many people playing it, as possible, setting things up has to be as simple, fast and hassle-free as possible. 



Now to test.....

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kju

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Reply with quote  #35 
sounds pretty good. as said removing CUP dep is possible but some work and config guy needs to know what he does
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Gunter Severloh

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Reply with quote  #36 
Right, tbh im not concerned about CUP it adds alot of features/maps, but thats the least of our worries atm.
I been testing again and the enemy AI dont deploy enough forces as in tanks, and infantry, plenty of trucks, and they have all the buildings spawned,
the enemy does capture all the strategic points but then when you recapture half of them they only may recapture one or 2 again.

Aside that loading screen is fixed, officers are standing at table again we need an animation for that.
Also the request heavy tank allocation and request heavy tank allocation buttons are both broke, i had 12,000 points, and the heavy tank allocation requires
3,000 points and it didn't work, heavy one i got an error apon pressing it. Other then that mission works just the Ai need some tweaking,
and they do capture now a bit faster so its a start.
Already reported to Rydygier so he knows whats going on, its a matter of tweaking hetman A3 and something in WOO.

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