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Gunter Severloh

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Hello everyone,
Through my regular research on WW2 vids, docs,ect, to add to my WW2Epic site I came across a video documentary about
why WW2 started, I dont know really what to believe after watching it, there are some truths in it that can be confirmed but
in general i dont know about the rest, wondering if anyone with some deep historical knowledge of WW2, the politics of it and
misc other things and how the war started could clear some of this up, watch the vid below:

https://archive.org/details/WhyWw2Started

I want to warn you about the vid, being WW2 it has some racial, and antisemitic talk in it so take it for the sake of history
my intent here is to clear up any misinformation about what the vid is talking about on how the war started.

Depending on your knowledge of those times, I find it that there seems to be a 1 sided view where the Germans basically started
the War, Hitler was a dictator and basically they wanted to conquer Europe, Russia and other lands thats about as much as
I know in terms of the politics in 1 sentence, I know more but I was more interested in the characters of the war and what they
did, and mainly the weaponry, and things that were done, just out of interest in guns and tanks in general and war related stuff.

As for the racial stuff never did anything for me, so Im rather neutral on the beliefs, or hates, or whatever and kind of able
to see all points of views without partaking in any of them and calling myself some label.
WW2 is just a fascinating to me thats why im into it.

What are your guys thoughts on what the vid is about, and knowledge of how WW2 started?

edit...
wanted to add, the 2nd vid connected with the one linked above titled Massacre at Katyn is pretty interesting too.

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rowdied

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Reply with quote  #2 
Wow just Wow!

That video is so wrong on so many levels it is disturbing!

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Gunter Severloh

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Ya thats what im wondering about, its put together very well and it makes sense what the author said, but whether its true or not I find it hard to believe.
Not taking his side but Germany did get screwed over by its own government but as for the Jewish thing, i probably didn't study enough or research enough back in
the day but I dont see where they come in other then maybe taking jobs away?
Idk

There was a video series thats I seen even have dvds on titled "Why we fight" remember those?
Maybe USA propaganda in WW2?

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Foxsch

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The video starts with some wholly inaccurate details on how Germany and Poland became embroiled in war and then it just gets worse and worse. What was particularly disturbing was the video-makers use of blatantly anti-semitic animation to express points [sic]. If you are interested in anything that moves away from the military hardware and towards the political/national leadership of the period you can find plenty of material, this struck me as something that would ultimately get removed from the web. I was glad to read the comments left by viewers in the review section. 
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***=Major Mayhem=***

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Reply with quote  #5 
Great topic Gunter,
I've been wanting to have this discussion for years.
but please stop circulating that utter piece of garbage/video above.

this is a much better option to start with regarding the topic

The Rise


The Fall


unfortunately history is written by the winners,  not the Honest.

Hitler’s Germany was predominately Catholic and protestant, the Roman Catholic Church not only embraced Hitler and Nazism but participated in the systemic imprisonment, torture and genocide of Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies.
religious fundamentalism teamed with political ideology working hand in hand Nazi Germany was Christian nationalism, social conservatism, and fascist socialist ideology. Germans believed that Hitler was sent from god. 
Germany was fighting “godless communism”!    the Last Great Crusade of the 20th Century

~S~


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rowdied

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Reply with quote  #6 
Don't forget that most of Europe was also anti-Semitic as well! Hitler just prayed on these sentiments that were running rife throughout Germany and most of Europe at the time.

Hitler at first allowed the jews to leave the country and even tried to force them to leave but the other countries refused the jews to enter. USA, Britain and France just to name a few. Why did they refuse to allow the jews to enter? Because they were anti-Semitic too!

history is written by the winners,  not the Honest <--Truer words have never been spoken!




http://www.amazon.com/review/RPK9BFDMLD0TZ
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irontiger

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunter Severloh
... but as for the Jewish thing, i probably didn't study enough or research enough back in
the day ...


You can start by seeing this CLIP done by Scot.

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rowdied

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Came across this interesting piece and wanted to share it.

https://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm

Not pro or anti anyone... just a fence sitter interested in finding out the facts.

Again, history is written by the winners, not the Honest!

Also interesting to point out and have always wondered about.

What About Real Holocausts? 

Why doesn't the film industry or news media produce documentaries about the numerous true holocausts of Gentiles during this century such as: 

The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) - 15 million exterminated! 

The Holocaust of the Ukranian farmers, (1930- 1933) - 7 million starved to death. 

The Holocaust of Russian political prisoners, (1919 - 1949) - 12 million perished. 

The Pol Pot Communist Holocaust in Cambodia (1975) - 2.5 million slaughtered. 

Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, (1915) - 1.5 million people killed. 

 

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Gunter Severloh

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Quote:
You can start by seeing this CLIP done by Scot.

Really didn't tell me anything, what I wanted to know is why are the jews and all these people's hated so much that Hitler
and these other dictators/countries, resort to genocide, why is there ethnic cleaning too in all these other countries, why is there a hate there?
Is it something these hated people are doing to the environment, to the peoples that hate them.


Quote:
Why doesn't the film industry or news media produce documentaries about the numerous true holocausts

I think those documentaries are out there, you just have to look for them, but it seems that unlike 9/11 if it doesn't hit home somehow its forgotten idk
what people feel in those countries, but its insane to think that any of this stuff actually occurred and I cannot fathom for the life of me why anyone
hate someone so much they feel the need to kill, take the life of a whole group, or race of people.

Its amazing how far our thinking has come to this day since those times, but there is still crazy sh*t going on.

Good point rowdied.

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irontiger

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Quote:
Really didn't tell me anything


Strange. it is the greatest story never told, the disembowelment of character, the undisputed evidence.

Quote:
what I wanted to know is why are the jews and all these people's hated so much


You will never find the answer, but only someone's view.
 
In the eyes of Hitler, Jews have been responsible for the decline of Western music,art and commerce,and above all - LIES where their primary tool of destruction.

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Rydygier

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Reply with quote  #11 
Yeah, the truth exists, but we only have narrations free will to choose, which we would like to believe and brain to choose wisely. Of course, as any well designed propaganda crap, such movies has to be based at least mostly on the facts to be believeable and survive - whtever is a lie there can't be easy  to verify. Then anyone, who would see this and is not educated in the matter (has no well established opinion), will say "hey, it makes sense!". It makes, but it's a lie in the same time. It's about twisted interpretation, concealment, what not fits to the given thesis etc. 

Why WW2 started? You can write whole books trying to give complete answer. Many did. That's for analytical approach including whole historical context. So maybe better try synthetic. I see two or three elements of the picture in such approach: Hitler's will and obedience of the nation lead by him. As for first, to know, why Hitler wanted all this bloodshed and genocide, you probably should study his biography, evolution of his thinking, speeches, statements or even read Mein Kampf, although, I heard, is very boring. As for obedience, I would suggest to focus on the German mentality elements combined with humiliantion and other consequences of Versailles Treaty, about which Marshal Ferdinand Foch said "This isn't a peace, it's a twenty year truce!". 

The third would be passivity of the West, allowing Hitler to do, whatever he wanted. He saw this, and that made him bolder and bolder. Poland was just another of several steps, only this time Hitler opened Pandora's Box of WW2. Another good question is, why WW2 wasn't over in 1939. The only thing required was fulfilling in action, not only in statements, French liabilities to Poland according to military alliance. Wehrmacht wasn't strong enough on that time to take Poland and defend western border. Almost whole military force was in Poland. Most probably French Army could take Ruhra and end the war very easily. Hitler, according to witnesses, expecting exactly that, was freightened as hell hearing about France and UK declared war to Germany.  

BTW, I would recommend good book: The Blitzkrieg legend, that could be quite enlightening for people, who think, blitzkrieg was some well designed and deliberately used tactics, that gave Germans their WW2 victories, while it was kinda opposite. All perfectly documented with countless sources (it's in fact more scientific work, than popular reading). Some fragments of this book may explain also the question of this topic. 


Now, sadly, I see, I must ask about one thing here, this:

"The New Testament is rife with anti-Semitism. Christianity is founded upon Jew on Jew hatred, it was old vs. new.  "

Major Mayhem, I do not know, why you're saying such things, is this some quotation, or your own judgement, "yours truth", you decided to believe in (that would be very sad), but it's deeply wrong. I found it highly insulting lie about my Christian/Catholic faith. You obviously have no idea, what are you talking about here. So please, explain, why you're saing this or better just remove it. 

As for the rest, each time such serious accusations are said, should be followed by the source proving them or not said at all. It's not place to discuss that further though, also my English vocabulary isn't good enough for that anyway.
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***=Major Mayhem=***

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Quote:
Now, sadly, I see, I must ask about one thing here, this:

"The New Testament is rife with anti-Semitism. Christianity is founded upon Jew on Jew hatred, it was old vs. new.  "

Major Mayhem, I do not know, why you're saying such things, is this some quotation, or your own judgement, "yours truth", you decided to believe in (that would be very sad), but it's deeply wrong. I found it highly insulting lie about my Christian/Catholic faith. You obviously have no idea, what are you talking about here. So please, explain, why you're saing this or better just remove it. 

As for the rest, each time such serious accusations are said, should be followed by the source proving them or not said at all. It's not place to discuss that further though, also my English vocabulary isn't good enough for that anyway.


First and foremost, your right ! this is not the place for a bible debate. we could have that debate on another forum or PM me.
I am sorry my statement was not meant to offend you or anyone's beliefs."Rydygier" but I must ask if you think the first video "Gunter" posted might be offensive to anyone ?

I was also initially raised Catholic but not blind to the lies of historians and their defenders which seem to have no regard for the influence religion has on most Wars. If we read between the lines and look at the objective evidence its undeniable. I used the above video for a specific reason.
I have watched countless hours of History channel videos and others regarding WWII and rarely ever do they mention this fact.
if you watch the Video "The Rise" they recite memoirs from some of the German citizens and slip up a little when one person writes
"she feels bad for the polish Jews and just doesn't understand why they don't convert to Christianity"

We need more people to ask more questions and not be in fear of questioning even the highest authority at all times.

Quote:
Question with boldness even the existence of god
Because , if there be one , He must more approve of the homage of Reason
then that of blindfolded fear.

- Thomas Jefferson


______________________________________________________________
What does this symbol represent ?
images.jpg 
_____________________________________
What does this buckle worn by all German soldiers say ?
untitled33.png  


___________________________________________________________

 

"Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the 'remaking' of the Reich as they call it."
— Adolf Hitler, ibid. Vol. 2 Chapter 1

"The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."
— Adolf Hitler, Berlin, 1933, first radio address after coming to power.

"The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society."
— Adolf Hitler, speech at the Reichstag, March 1933

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ... We need believing people."
— Adolf Hitler, April 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933

"I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted."
— Adolf Hitler

"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."
— Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations; we have stamped it out."
— Adolf Hitler, speech on October 24, 1933
______________________________________________
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

— Adolf Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941
______________________________________________
"I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator.  By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

 — Adolf Hitler, ibid. p. 65

~S~

 



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Rydygier

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
but I must ask  if you think the first video "Gunter" posted might be offensive to anyone ? 


We could even cite here Mein Kampf itself without offending anyone, as long it isn't given as a truth, just some quoted data for discussion. This way I perceive movies, Gunther pasted. He only asked, if there is some truth in that. Fine to me. Good to ask, if we don't know something. Would be worse, if he would paste such movies and say "hey, look, the truth". Then I would protest, because I think otherwise. 

Just to be clear, I don't have any problem with a statement, so truly in the name of God or any faith or religion some people was commiting worst things imagineable (Christianity and Atheism (yes, that's also a faith) included), while others was only cynically using religious rethoric for same purpose. The truth is never offending, and IMO that's the truth, so no problem with that. Truth about the people, not always about the faith or religion, to be precise.

I found offending my faith directly only that part, I quoted, where you diagnosed Christanity as religion founded on hatred. Because this isn't the truth (can't be farther from the truth), but was stated like such. Thus my protest.

Also, criminals using faith as justification for/reason of his actions is one thing, but saying, so Catholic Church loved nazis, basing on the fact, Nazis was using Christian rethoric and symbols is logical error. If you want to prove such thesis, and you should, if you make such accusations, then you need to prove, that Church officially accepted Nazi ideology. Any criminal may claim, so his deeds was dictated by given faith or God, but that doesn't mean, so this faith or God really had anything common or accepted his crimes.
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***=Major Mayhem=***

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Reply with quote  #14 
Rydygeir,

we can debate fact vs faith another time. I am always open to all information and ready to change my mind if that information supports the evidence but extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence.
I see evidence to the contrary of the world view and I'm willing to discuss it openly without ones faith being off limits.

Nazi Photos

Hitlers  Vision


[biggrin] I see you edited your post so now I must update mine.
I would like to continue this discussion with you on another forum,  so let us do that HERE OK ?  
as we are getting a bit off topic. and I will edit my first post since you find it offensive.

~S~

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Rydygier

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Reply with quote  #15 
Probably my English is worse, I thought. I do not argue, so Hitler and Nazis not used Christian symbols and rethoric to justify their crimes, because they obviously did that. 

Read again, what I wrote, if something isn't understandable - say me, I'll try to rephrase. 
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